Women–Materially Speaking–Are Less Intelligent than Men
When
we speak of differences between the genders we are only speaking of the
material differences. Spiritually there are no differences. But in the
body and the material mind and intelligence there ARE real differences
between the sexes. Many of these differences have been verified by
different university studies…
Ragunath Prabhuji,
Thank you for sending me your posts.
While
there is much merit to what you say, and you have good motive for what
you say, I do hope you are not offended by me offering my different
view. I am not in full agreement with you on these topics. There are
valid reasons. I ask that you try to consider the reasons before making
misjudgments.
Not all men who may espouse that “materially”, in
the mundane view, men are by nature more intelligent then women, are all
misguided fallen souls entrenched in their male egos, who delight in
suppressing and taking advantage of those who are far below their lofty
superior being.
Nor did many of these devotee men come to KC with
these mundane ideas, simply not been able to shake them off in favor of
the higher transcendental knowledge of spiritual equality. But, rather,
it is Srila Prabhupada and Vedic scripture and culture itself that
teaches us BOTH the material differences AND the spiritual equality.
The
science of Daivi-Varnashram-Dharma is to understand and act, where
needed, on the platform of Spiritual Equality, and yet also,
side-by-side, to also understand that materially there are differences
and that society must recognize and accommodate those differences when
and where needed.
There must be a full and proper understanding of Both sides.
The
soul is neither male or female (ultimately female in relation to
Krsna). Neither is the soul brahman, ksatriya, vaishya or sudra. Yet,
for purpose of “managing” the society, Vedic culture, Krsna, and SP, all
make distinction between the classes. VAD. On one side Krsna teaches in
Gita
that the transcendental sage sees equally (SPIRITUAL Vision) the
brahman, cow, dog, dog-eater, etc., on the other hand Krsna teaches that
it is He who has created the system of VA – dividing society into 4
varnas and 4 ashrams according to one’s MATERIAL qualities. A
transcendental sage sees with equal vision – only on the Spiritual
platform. But at the same time he teaches and guides society to adopt
and follow the social system of divisions, VAD – which DISCRIMINATES
based on our MATERIAL qualities.
There have been deep rooted
social problems in iskcon’s fledging society. No doubt. Problems
stemming from both imperfect spiritual vision and improper knowledge and
maturity on how to view and engage the material differences. But,
really, it isn’t that big of a deal. The problem is not that the system
is too hard to implement or to difficult to grasp. The problem has been
with either our being too near sighted in vision and not seeing the
obvious, or in being overly intelligent and thinking the system is far
more complex then it is.
The problem has been how to balance both
the transcendental vision with the practical managment of the material
differences. Those who use the material differences to supress others,
abuse others, take advantage of others are obviously lacking in
spiritual vision. On the other hand, those who try to manage the
external material dealings of social intercourse by ignoring the
material differences and classes and try to artificially make a
classless society are also lacking in Vedic vision and insight. Krsna
taught us that HE has created the system of VAD and all great acharyas,
including SP, have taught that society will function, on the material
level, best, only when this system of VAD is recognized and followed. It
is a balance of BOTH spiritual vision of spiritual equality mixed with
discrimination based on material qualities.
This is where I see we
disagree – and correct me if i am wrong. But, in your essay all i am
seeing is argument for the Spiritual Vision side of the equation.
Prabhuji, I have also been studying VAD – especially social DHARMA
aspect of it – for way over 15-18 yrs. I have studied the Vedabase as
well as compared notes with the Manu Samhita, etc. and SP’s teaching
always included this balance of seeing equal spirit souls along with
discriminating according to material qualities and engaging according to
those material differences. He taught both things, and both sides must
be there for society to go on nicely. The whole basis of VAD is to
discriminate and classify according to material qualities.
Maybe
some devotees lacked in the spiritual vision – understanding of
spiritual equality aspects and driven and controlled by their false egos
misused Vedic teachings of discrimination to take advantage of women,
children, etc. However, all that i am able to gather from your writing
is the Equal Vision, with no balance of material discrimination. Society
cannot be managed under such a classless system. Not even Iskcon, an
institution designed to teach spiritual knowledge and values, because it
is functioning within this material world. Too many of the members are
still very much conditioned souls. It is not possible to properly manage
a “material” society (which the ashrams and varnas are all apart of the
material aspects, discriminating via varna and ashrama – that is all
material discrimination, the soul is not brahmana or sudra, nor
brahmacari or grhasta) based only on equal vision of the soul. There
must be a mature balance, and i do not see that at all in your writing.
You
want to portray your essay as being “Krsna Conscious” – so i would
assume that you mean that it is in-line with the teachings of Srila
Prabhupad, however, your views do not reflect the proper teachings and
understanding of SP’s teachings. You have made a mockery of the idea
that materially speaking women are not as intellectual as men. Where as
Srila Prabhupad has many times made this discrimination. When we are
speaking of such differences between the genders we are only speaking of
the material differences, the differences that the conditioning of the
material bodies place on us. Obvioiusly, spiritually there are no
differences. But, bodily, and that includes also the material mind and
intelligence, there ARE real differences between the sexes. Many of
these differences have been, at various times, verified and recognized
by different university studies in modern times. I do not have the
references, but I read (nearly 4-5 yrs ago) that for many years there
has been a large vacuum of women in the upper medical fields. Most all
(if not all) heart surgeons are male, neurological surgeons, etc.,
mostly all male. This “unfair” discrimination was noted years ago, and
so the universities undertook many programs to try and close the gender
gap. Also, the same was found in the higher degrees of quantum physics,
etc. There was a serious imbalance of men to women. Many efforts were
made to close the gap. In fact, a coordinated effort of all leading
medical universities in the nation was made to do ‘something’ about
this. So, for many years they set quotas so that many more women would
be admitted to the higher courses then men, this was done in an attempt
to turn out more women so that the numbers of men and women would become
more equal. In doing this many men who met all the qualifications were,
for years, kept out of the classes and courses for these higher, and
tougher, studies.
The result after many years of such efforts?
Still, very very few women have made it. I can’t recall if there are yet
any women heart surgeons, at least it is very few if any. Why? Because
the women could not complete the courses. They fried out along the way.
The courses were too hard – to much intellectual information. Studies
were done, but these are kept QUITE so as to not be used against the
colleges for being sexists, but what was found was that women were just
not able to grasp and compete side by side with men in such demanding
intellectual studies.
In fact, in the higher learning of physics
many of the men who were doing well in their grades still ‘partied’ on
the weekends and would take off time for sports or leisure activities,
yet during the fewer hours they studied were able to assimilate far more
and to greater depths. While, most all of the women taking such courses
had to tune out all other social activities, took no leisure time,
simply had to dedicate 100% of their full time and effort into their
studies just to try and keep up with the pace and depth of studies their
male counterparts were able to do with less time and effort expended.
As soon as the women took time off and social breaks, as the men did,
their comprehension of the higher course material dropped significantly.
What happened is the women simply “burnt out”. Once they burned out,
they would be forced to drop out from the higher med classes (or higher
physics).
But, because the universities were working conjointly to
give most of the seats to women in the classes, and most of them fried
out and dropped out, what has happened is a shortage of higher educated
doctors now exists.
Anyway, the point is that there are many such
evidences that when it comes to in-depth intellectual understandings
women and men have Different material abilities. Is that so hard to
accept? Our bodies are different. Our breasts are different, our sex
organs are different, our emotional balance is different, our aggressive
or meek behavior is different. All these differences are caused by the
bodily covering. In fact, some are chemical. Male and female bodies
produce different levels of hormones that cause many of these
differences. When women are given large quantities of testosterone for
long periods – after a while they grow hair on their faces, their voices
deepen to that of a male, and they become less “emotional”, more logic
oriented, more decisive, more assertive and aggressive. Take them off
the testosterone, and they revert back to their feminine nature. Give
men large doses of estrogen and their breasts will grow and develop like
that of women, their voices go higher and sound like a woman, and they
become more emotionally sensitive, making decisions on sentimental
‘feeling’ rather than logic. They become less assertive, less
aggressive, more dependent, emotionally, on others, etc. These are REAL
differences between men and women. And, what causes these differences is
the body, the glands that excrete the hormones are different, and those
hormones cause these very REAL and documented differences between men
and women.
This is all Material, it has to do with the body only,
but it is REAL. The differences exist. Since we are embodied in this
material world, Vedic science teaches that we must recognize these
material differences and organize society so that it can function with
the least friction. To ignore this shows a total lack of understanding
of what VAD is all about.
Many many times SP pointed out the
material differences between men and women. Often times noting that the
woman are less intelligent.
“O son of Prtha, those who take
shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth-women, vaisyas [merchants]
as well as sudras [workers]-can approach the supreme destination.” Women
are considered on the same platform with sudras, and although a woman
may be married to a brahmana, she is not given the sacred thread. It is
also said that the Mahabharata was compiled by Vyasadeva because the
direct Vedic knowledge could not be understood by women, sudras and
dvija-bandhus, those who are born in brahmana families but are not
qualified brahmanas. Stri-sudra-dvijabandhunam traye na sruti-gocara (
Bhag. 1.4.25).
Consequently Mahabharata is called the fifth Veda. The four preceding
Vedas are the Sama, Yajur, Rg and Atharva. The essence of Vedic
knowledge,
Bhagavad-gita,
is given within the Mahabharata. Women are inferior to men, and Vedic
civilization is so perfect that men are given full charge of the women.
It is therefore said: matu priya-cikirsaya. The son is always ready to
see that the mother is not unhappy. Kapiladeva was anxious that His
mother not feel the absence of His father, and He was ready to take the
best care of her and give her knowledge.
Because women are
supposed to be less intelligent, they should be given knowledge, and
they should also follow this knowledge. They should follow their
father’s instructions, their husband’s instructions and the instructions
of their grown, scholarly sons like Kapiladeva. In this way, their
lives can be perfect. In all cases, women should always remain
dependent.(REF. TLK Vs 5)
When it comes to Bhakti – love of God,
yes, both men and women embodied souls can take up the bhakti marg. It
is not that women are not allowed to become devotees of Krsna. But, when
it comes to social intercourse, to marriage and social duties, to
management and leadership of society, then there is discrimination based
on sex so that society can be managed smoothly.
Mrs. Wax: Could a woman be a temple president?
Prabhupada: Yes, why not?
Mrs. Wax: Glad to hear it.
Prabhupada: But because women are less intelligent, they should
remain dependent on first-class father, first-class husband, and
first-class son. Then she is first-class. That is the injunction. Woman
should remain dependent in childhood upon first-class father, in
youthhood upon first-class husband, and in old age upon first-class son.
Woman is never independent. If she becomes independent, her life is not
very good. She must agree to remain dependent on first-class father,
first-class husband, and first-class son-three stages. ============ REF.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager
of Playboy Magazine — July 5, 1975, Chicago
The woman asking is
very much feminist – into equal rights. She asks if a woman ‘can’ become
a TP, and SP answers, “yes, why not?” She is glad to hear. Now that SP
has got her to drop her defense and accept, SP immediately cuts to the
fact that (materially speaking) “women are less intelligent” and because
of this, they should remain dependent on a man. If she becomes
independent that is not very good. So, how can a woman be dependent on a
man and stll be a TP?
Queen Kunti was very qualified vaishnavi,
but when Pandu, her husband died, she did not take over the kingdom, but
placed herself under the care of the elder men of the family until her
sons were old enough, then she placed herself under her sons. Always
dependent on a male, never independent.
So many times SP has
taught that women are, materially speaking, in general, less intelligent
of the sexes. Is this a put-down on women? No. Should it be used to
supress them? NO But, It MUST be used to PROTECT them. In pointing out
that women are less intelligent, or the weaker of the sexes, or more
easily misled, SP often stressed that this means that women must be
PROTECTED. A sober man, a man of moral integrity, raises to the occasion
of to take protect those who are dependent on him (I would have said,
to protect those ‘under’ him, but felt you would take that as too
chauvinistic).
A king’s duty is to protect those under his rule. A
father’s duty is to protect his dependents, his children, and to
protect his submissive wife.
When we speak of the sexes we can’t
leave out marriage. Marriage in KC does not mean equal rights – I am
equal spiritual soul and so are you, so lets both have equal say in all
matters. NO. That is no way to manage anything. In work, companies,
there must be a person who is in charge. In family there must be a
designated person to take ultimate charge, ultimate responsibility. It
is the only way an army can function, or a successful company, or a
successful marriage. If there are no clear cut and understood, accepted
and followed system of hierarchy, the marriage will end up failing.
There
are SO MANY reasons why women MUST take to the submissive, even
subservient, role in a marriage. For instance, raising children.
Children need to see a clear leader – an distinctive authority, in their
very early lives. Male voices are deep and commanding. Women’s voices
are higher pitched and simply don’t carry the weight or authority. It is
by Krsna’s divine arrangement. The mother tells the children do this,
do that, they don’t really take mother seriously half the time. But,
when father says it, they act. I saw this documented on TV some years
back. Researchers found children who were raised in home where there was
full effort made to not discriminate on sex, or boys raised without
fathers in the home. Children, by nature, responded differently to male
and female voices. (Also, at less then 1 boys and girls – on their own –
develop very distinct female or male characteristics). For example, one
lady’s husband left her before her son was born, he was 8 and had only
been under his mother’s care. Still, when she told him to clean his
room, he always ignored her, but her brother (the boy’s uncle) came
over, he would ask one time, bam, the kid does it. So, on camera the boy
was asked why? He said because he just doesn’t like girls, even his own
mother, to tell him anything. But, when his uncle tells him, he feels
he has to do it – he didn’t know why, but he knows if a man tells him,
he just has to do it. But, it is proven, for children the father, the
man’s voice, it commands respect.
So, if the woman takes to the
submissive role in the family, and she submissively serves her husband
and treats him with the greatest of respect – something magical happens.
The children automatically respect “Authority” – not just their own
father, but they respect authority in general. Where as if the women is
belligerent and shows a lack of respect for her husband, does not see
him as authority over her, but tries to share equal, the children do not
have the same respect for authority.
And, even though it seems
nice for some to think that women and men should treat each other
equally, this is not what SP teaches in respect to husbands and wives.
The wife must take to the submissive position. When women can do this,
so many marriages will be saved.
Trying to make men and women
equal on the material level is ARTIFICIAL, and as such it is doomed to
failure. Spiritually, on the spiritual level, we are absolutely equal.
But, as soon as you speak of Men and Women you are no longer talking
about the spirit soul, but the material body, and the male and female
are NOT equal, they are DIFFERENT. Is one greater and one lesser, yes,
materially. But, it has be to balanced. Is a brahman superior to a
sudra? Yes, materially speaking. But, the two can still be vaishnav and
both are equal spirit souls. But, for the functioning of society, the
Head is more valuable to society then the foot. One can live, not
nicely, but one can live without legs, but one will die without a head.
Legs are important, but the head is superior. Sudras are needed in
society, but a brahman is superior. This is Material. Women have their
duty, and their roles are absolutely essential to society, but men do
have the duties to take the materially superior leadership roles in
society.
Reporter: Are men regarded as superior to women?
Prabhupada: Yes, naturally. Naturally, woman requires protection
by the man. In the childhood she is protected by the father, and youth
time she is protected by the husband, and old age she is protected by
elderly sons. That is natural. Female
Reporter: That goes against the thinking of a lot of people in America now. Do you know that?
Prabhupada: No… America, maybe, but this is the natural position.
Women require protection.=========== REF. Interview — March 5, 1975,
New York
Woman Reporter: Where do women fit into these four classes?
Prabhupada: That I already explained. Women’s position is
subordinate to man. So if the man is first-class, the woman is
first-class. If the man is second-class, the woman is second-class. If
the man is third-class, the woman is third-class. In this… Because woman
is meant for assisting man, so the woman becomes suitable according to
the man, her husband.
Woman Reporter: Would you say that women are inferior to men?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Woman Reporter: Why?
Prabhupada: By physiological condition. Just like you are. Your
bodily features are different from the man’s features. You cannot deny
it. So according to the bodily features, the psychological condition and
everything is there. How you can deny it?
Woman Reporter: Do you think that I am inferior to you?
Prabhupada: It is not the question of inferior or superior.
Different. Now you take one inferior or superior. That is your
calculation. But the bodily features are different. That is material.
But spiritually, they are all one. Materially… Just like your bodily
feature and a man’s bodily feature is different. Now, so far question of
inferior, superior, that is your calculation. But we say that by
nature, a woman and man is different.
Woman Reporter: What does this mean as far as whether women can do the same things that men can do, or whether women can lead people?
Prabhupada: Well, women can bear children, but the man cannot. Is it possible to bear children? A man can become pregnant? Is it possible?
Woman Reporter: No.
Prabhupada: Physically… Therefore there are so many things which
is possible in man and which is not possible in woman, by nature. How
you can say that they are of the same nature?
Woman Reporter: I’m not saying they’re the same. What can…
Prabhupada: Then if you not saying that, then they are different
in their physiological condition. So now this physiological condition,
you may calculate, “This is better, this is better.” That is your
calculation. Our calculation is the man and woman are different in their
physiological condition.
Woman Reporter: But you say women are subordinate to men.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is also natural. Because when the husband
and wife are there or the father and daughter is there, so the daughter
is subordinate to the father and the wife is subordinate to the husband.
Woman Reporter: What happens when women are not subordinate to men?
Prabhupada: Then there is disruption. There is disruption, social
disruption. If the woman does not become subordinate to man, then there
is social disruption. Therefore, in the western countries there are so
many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become
subordinate to man. That is the cause.
Woman Reporter: What advice do you have to women who do not want to be subordinate to men?
Prabhupada: It is not my advice, but it is the advice of the Vedic knowledge that woman should be chaste and faithful to man.
Woman Reporter: What should we do in the United States? We’re trying to make women equal with men.
Prabhupada: I am not trying. You are already not equal with the
man because in so many respects, your functions are different and man’s
functions are different. Why do you say artificially they are equal? As I
told you that the husband and wife-the wife has to become pregnant, not
the husband. How you can change this, both the husband and wife will be
pregnant? Is it possible? Is it possible?
Woman Reporter: No, it is not.
Prabhupada: Then by nature one has to function differently from the other.
Woman Reporter: But why does this mean…?
Prabhupada: So how you can change?
Woman Reporter: Why does this mean that women have to be subordinate?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Woman Reporter: Just because they bear children and men can’t?
Prabhupada: Well, by nature… No, as soon as you get children, you require support from the husband. Otherwise you are in difficulty.
Woman Reporter: Many women have children and have no support from husbands. They have no husband.
Prabhupada: Then they have to take support from others. You
cannot deny that. The government is giving you support. But the
government is embarrassed. If the husband supports the wife and
children, the government is relieved of so much welfare contribution. So
that is a problem.
Woman Reporter: What happens when women support men?
Prabhupada: First of all try to understand that you depend. The…
After man and woman unite, there is children, and the man goes away, and
you are embarrassed. The woman is embarrassed. Why? Why this is, is
made possible? A man and woman unites, and the woman becomes pregnant,
and the husband goes away. Then the poor woman is embarrassed with the
child. She has to beg from the government. So do you think it is very
nice thing? The Vedic idea is that woman should be married to a man and
the man should take charge of the woman and the children independently
so that they do not become a burden to the government or to the public.
Woman Reporter: Do you think the social unrest…
Prabhupada: I am thinking like this. You give me the answer.
Simply you go on questioning. I question you, do you think this burden
to the government or the public is good?
Woman Reporter: I don’t understand what you’re saying. Nitäi: Do
you think that the burden caused when the husband goes away from the
wife, that burden to the government is good?
Woman Reporter: No.
Prabhupada: So that has happened. Because the woman does not
agree to be subordinate-she wants equal freedom-so the husband goes away
and the woman is embarrassed with the children. And it becomes a burden
to the government.
Woman Reporter: Is there anything wrong when the woman works?
Prabhupada: There are so many things wrong. But first thing is
the wife, the woman, the wife of somebody, and the child born by
somebody, they should become burden to the government or to the public.
First of all answer this thing. Why she should become burden to the
government? What is your answer? Do you think, from social point of
view, this position of woman and the fatherless children are very nice
thing? No.
Woman Reporter: What I’m trying to say is that… This may happen to some women. I’m talking about women who are not…
Prabhupada: Not… These are the general cases. You cannot say, “some.” I see in America mostly the woman…
Woman Reporter: Oh, then what you’re saying is not all women should be subordinate to all men.
Prabhupada: No, woman should be subordinate to the man, so that
the man can take charge of the woman. Then that woman is not a problem
to the public.
Woman Reporter: Is it true for all woman and all men?
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the nature. You take even in the dogs.
The dogs they also take care of their children. The tigers, they take
care of the children. So in the human society, if the woman is made
pregnant and the man goes away and she is embarrassed, she has to beg
from the government, that is not a very good situation.
Woman Reporter: What about women who do not have children?
Prabhupada: Well, that is also another unnatural thing. Sometimes
they use contraceptives. They kill children, abortion. That is also not
very good. These are all sinful activities. These are sinful
activities, to kill child in the womb. And take shelter of abortion.
These are all sinful activities. One has to suffer for that.
Woman Reporter: Is the social unrest in this country caused because…
Prabhupada: Because of these things. They do not know that.
Woman Reporter: And if women were subordinate to men, it would solve all of our problems?
Prabhupada: Yes. Man wants that woman should be subordinate,
faithful to him. Then he is ready to take charge. The man’s mentality,
woman’s mentality different. So if the woman agrees to remain faithful
and subordinate to man, then the family life will be peaceful.
Woman Reporter: Thank you. It’s late. …
Woman Reporter: You have different schools for men and women, is that correct?
Prabhupada: Yes. Man is regulated to become a first-class man, and woman is regulated to become very chaste and faithful wife.
Woman Reporter: There is one more question.
Prabhupada: Then the life will be very successful. And marriage, compulsory. Marriage, compulsory.
Woman Reporter: Everyone should marry?
Prabhupada: Yes. Every woman, at least, should be married. Therefore, according to Vedic conception, polygamy is allowed.
Woman Reporter: Is allowed?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because every woman must be married. But every man may not be married. Therefore man has to accept more than one wife.
Woman Reporter: There is one question I have for you. You say that a woman’s brain is smaller than a man’s.
Prabhupada: Woman? Nitäi: Woman’s brain is smaller than a man’s brain.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is a fact. In the history there is no woman
who is a big philosopher, a big mathematician, big scientist, big
educationist. We don’t find. They were all men.
Woman Reporter: What about women who are leaders of countries such as your own country?
Prabhupada: Well, according to Vedic conception woman is never
offered leadership. But experience has shown that woman’s leadership has
not been successful.
Woman Reporter: Do you think Mrs. Gandhi’s leadership has not been successful?
Prabhupada: Well, there is already trouble. There are many big,
big men, they do not agree with her and she has taken emergency steps.
So on the whole, the country is in trouble.
Woman Reporter: What about Mrs. Meir, president of Israel?
Prabhupada: I do not say of any particular woman, but according
to Vedic civilization, we have never seen in the history that woman has
become a leader. ============ REF. Television Interview — July 9, 1975,
Chicago
SP has spoken many times about how and why women should be
trained to take the submissive (subordinate) role in marriage and in
society. SP said, specifically, that when women refuse to accept this
what is the result:
“
Woman Reporter: What happens when women are not subordinate to men?
Prabhupada: Then there is disruption. There is disruption,
social disruption. If the woman does not become subordinate to man, then
there is social disruption. Therefore, in the western countries there
are so many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become
subordinate to man. That is the cause.”
3-4 times SP repeated,
there will be social disruption. Divorce is caused by women not taking
to the submissive position. Divorce = break up of family, children
suffer the most in a broken home, a broken family. Remarriage is
unchaste for women. Children become unwanted and all of society
degrades.
But, if women take up the submissive duty and roles in marriage and society, then what is the result:
“
Woman Reporter: Is the social unrest in this country caused because…
Prabhupada: Because of these things. They do not know that.
Woman Reporter: And if women were subordinate to men, it would solve all of our problems?
Prabhupada: Yes. Man wants that woman should be subordinate,
faithful to him. Then he is ready to take charge. The man’s mentality,
woman’s mentality different. So if the woman agrees to remain faithful
and subordinate to man, then the family life will be peaceful.”
All social unrest is due to this one thing, women not taking to the subordinate social position.
This
is all material consideration, but we are speaking of material society,
how it functions. It is no more or less material then the Varnas and
Ashrams. The soul is not sudra or brahman, but we discriminate by such
classes for the smooth functioning of the social body, which is
material.
